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The Representation Tweet
Comments
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Yeah, we need more causes in games. What if someone wants a Christian outfit, or a Republican/Democrat for the U.S. political parties? Where does it end? It's best to let a game be just that, a game. Not everything needs a cause, no matter how well-intentioned.
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And that first sentence was sarcasm btw
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It would be a little weird if they were rewriting the lore for some characters but I wouldn't care even if that ended up as the case. Whatever sexuality they choose to make their characters, it doesn't harm anyone. Unless they're an idiot.
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Here's a question: Is the subject of romantic relationships off-limits as far as exploring the lore of already-established characters?
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I should start off by saying two things: First off, I'm am a straight male, and I have no experience with the LGBT community. Secondly, I believe that all sexualities are perfectly 100% acceptable. It is perfectly okay to like whoever you want, and under no circumstances should you be discriminated against for who you like.
I may sound like a broken record here (since many people have also said this), but I am perfectly okay with the addition of LGBT characters into the game. On the other hand, I kind of preferred the way that BHVR was handling it before (just leaving it up to the player's imagination), since in my opinion, leaving anything to the player's imagination helps them connect to the characters more (Just to note: this isn't exclusive to sexuality). Ultimately, it's something that won't affect me too much since I tend to only vaguely follow the lore of characters.
However, I feel like this is a case of Forced Diversity vs. Natural Diversity, and that's what is making people a little bit concerned. As I already said, I am perfectly okay with the addition of LGBTQ characters, but I also want to make sure that these new characters bring more to the table other than just being LGBTQ.
Remember the "All female heroes" scene from Avengers: Endgame? A lot of people criticized that for being strictly for PR, and not actually progressing the plot in anyway. The same thing sort of worries me here. I don't want another case of "this is here strictly for diversity purposes". A character's sexuality should be a characteristic, not their entire character.
My point is, LGBTQ people are just like anyone else, and I am perfectly okay with more LGBTQ characters in the game. However, if more were to be added, they should be represented as more than vessels of their sexuality. Otherwise, it would seem like forced diversity.
EDIT: Cleared up some wording
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Pro tip: sexual orientation is not a choice.
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Oh whoops, I didn't mean to come off like that, my bad. I'll fix it once I can think of some better wording.
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Way to insert politics even more into this thread chief.
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Science isn't political, even if certain parties would like it to be.
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It is when science is questioned. I'm not even saying I disagreed with your point; your point just added nothing to the conversation. Science is used to support both sides of the abortion argument, doesn't mean it needs to be brought up here.
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Cue some "hurrrr hurrrr but what about POLITICAL SCIENCE HUH?" blockhead.
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Keep politics out of video games.
LBGT, SWJ, BLM, Trump, Brexit. IDGAF. It has no place in games.
This is a major reason I decided NOT to pursue a career in game development when I had the chance. Too much political BS. Also ######### working conditions and no job security.
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Nobody brought up abortion, it's simply a well-established fact that people cannot choose their sexual orientation.
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There's nothing political about including people with certain characteristics.
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Their sexual orientation can be considered apart of their lore. afaik lore does not equal gameplay. For me, I think having the addition of a diverse cast in terms of sexual orientation, race, and cultural background is a great bonus in insight as to who these creations of characters, are.
After all, it is just written pieces made by great writers that don't really have an effect on gameplay. Imo it should be welcomed.
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Bro you've officially driven this thread off topic. I was giving you an example how just saying "science is on my side" doesn't mean science is on you side. There are plenty of people who can make the case that sexual orientation is a choice. Just because it doesn't fit your world view doesn't change this fact.
Also, it used to be established fact that the earth was the flat center of the universe.
This all detracts from the topic at hand of if/how character lore should be created.
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I pointed out a tiny error in someone's comment that they acknowledged and said would correct. You're the one still talking about it like I advocated genocide or something.
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I pointed out the error in your attempt to point out his "error" and you responded trying to monopolize science
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Why are you trying to make this thread go off-topic?
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Pro tip: gas lighting me won't work. You started this side debate.
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ITT: People who have no comprehension of how exclusion feels. NB4 "Maybe they do"; They've clearly learned nothing from it. SMDH
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There very much is something political about virtue signaling when you do it though.
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Since any time LGBT and/or black people are added to a game it's complained about as "virtue signaling", I say let them virtue signal their asses off. Whoever doesn't like it can leave.
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Okay but listen
You're defending your stance as LGBTQ shouldn't be used as a marketing scheme etc etc so therefore no character should be made LGBTQ...
If that's true and you care so much about the preservation integrity of the LGBTQ community rather than the community being used as a moneymaking ploy then shouldn't you let the opinions and desires of the LGBTQ community be king in the decider whether there should or shouldn't rather than speaking for them on why they shouldn't get represented? And I'm just clarifying, I am only making this point solely based off all of your replied and self defensive points so far.
I would love some LGBTQ content and I can't see any issues with current characters being LGBTQ as long as it
A) Does not conflict with any existing lore
B) Does not become a main focus of their character and I mean this in the way of a lot of their lore revolves around it. I am so tired of LGBTQ characters being made as if LGBTQ is their whole personality, is the only aspect of their lives. I actually don't want relationships IN GENERAL to ever be a big focus in the characters.
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I'm gay and while I never cared about DBD lore and never needed any "representation" (apart from cosmetics because getting some rainbow themed would be nice). I really don't get what's your problem since you don't care who all those characters are what makes you care now? You can play the way you did.
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Funny how no one complained when any of the black characters were added to the game though. It was done organically which is why it was accepted.
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Well to use a old video game, star wars republic commando. Well the writers have no real military experience. So they when and ask for advice from someone who does have military experience, to learn from. To learn what a elite special forces commando would do. Which i believe gta also did the same thing but for criminal related stuff. They didn't personal experience this but would go out and talk to others who did. Learning from their experiences and than using their skills as writers to employ it to their work. Which i believe it what marvel used to do back in the early days, go around the city. Learning and experiencing things, to help aid in their writing. Hawkwood manga, is about the 100 years war between france and english, done by someone from japan and yet does a great job at getting many details about the time period right, like the armor.
Well all of these things share one thing in common, they did their research. Showing, you don't have to be x to tell a tale about x. It just depends on how good you are at telling a tale and how much effort you are willing to put into things. For to look at a few more things. The comic border town and the movie coco. Both cover the same culture. Yet one of them, Coco handles it better and also tells a better tale. Yet the person who made coco is not from that culture. They simply did their research. While border town writer, is from that culture and yet wrote a poorly told and confusing story, that doesn't make sense at times. That can come off as disrespect to the culture they are covering. While Coco comes off as way more respectful to the culture, due to handling all of it's characters and the story being much better in general. So i wouldn't say it's always the case of you hire x and they will be able to write x well. Like there was a old devildare one and x-men run. Done by the same woman and was rather well done, due to the quality of her skill as a writer and she was able to handle male characters, even without being one. Blue exorcist manga, main character is a male and the author is a female. Yet the main character is well written, due to her skill as a writer. I would say what matters more is one skill as a writer and how much effort they are willing to put into it. That and there is full metal alchemist. Female writer, Edward and his brother, are well written characters. Showing once again, you don't have to be x to write x well.
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Just because you weren't here to see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.
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I mean, everyone deserves to have representation or to be able to identify; but at the same time, the "they are what you want them to be" way of doing things was the best way to do this. This pandering was largely unnecessary.
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Add them to the game I don't mind. Just don't go "Oh hey look what we did because we want to be more inclusive!"
If you just do it, there is no virtue signalling. When you make an effort to draw attention to you doing it, that is virtue signalling, which means you are being political.
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The devs have been pandering to heterosexuals, though, so that ship sailed long ago. Specifically, since the Nurse. Where was your outrage back then?
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So nobody who does anything nice can ever show it because they're being political? Have you considered that people might like good news every once in a while in their social media between all the doom and gloom, bots, racists, and fake news?
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They haven't pandered to heterosexuals. They haven't made twitter posts advertising straight characters because they are straight, nor should they. They've even gone on record as saying that the characters sexual orientation is what we want it to be. Especially now with different cosmetics, everyone has an identity. So I repeat - this pandering is unnecessary. It's just a publicity stunt.
As for my "outrage" - listen sonny, if you're going to call it outrage, better consult a dictionary and see what outrage is. Having an opinion =! outrage.
THIS exactly. If there's one place politics shouldn't be injected, it's in video games. Honestly. If you as a company have to say "Look at what we're doing! Aren't we great!?", you're actually just an attention seeking, over-pandering and cheap company. You shouldn't be doing it for recognition. Just DO the thing, and be the change instead of advertising that you're the change. It cheapens the action.
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Bro, you're not "being nice" by including people you should have included anyway.
That's like saying "I didn't murder anyone today! Hooray for me!". Yea that's what it should be. You're not special for doing what you should have done in the first place.
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Yeah b is a issue that people will have in time to time in stories. Where a character just stops being a person and simply becomes a hive mind with another character, due to being a couple and seem to have no life outside of their relationship with that character, as if they gave up their whole personality just to fuse together with the other character. Leading to them being just overall less interesting, for they no longer are two characters but simply one hive mind that cannot exist outside of this relationship. Which something you sometimes seen in long running shows, you see flanderization, where a minor trait of a character, just ends becoming that characters only trait. Turning them from a once interesting character with many traits and odd little things that help to flesh them out, only to become a one note character over time that is only x and nothing else.
Which of all the people have talked over the years, who have taken issue with western entertain. It's not due to disliking x or y characters. It's due to poor story telling. Which is why many have gone over to eastern media like manga from japan. Which has lots of female characters and no one bats a eye. Boy and girl's love genre that focus on same gender relation ships and no one cares. For it's normal and has been normalized and no one makes a big deal out of it. That and even if the story is not the best, eastern media at least tries to entertain you normally or tell a good story. While western media can make you go, whatttttt? Cw Batwoman, had the logic in one episode. You can get away with stealing money from people, posting someone credit card information out to the public and almost injuring or murdering people, all of that is ok due to the character being gay and wanting to buy a ticket to get away from their parents. That was legit logic the show used and the character who did all of these things, got off scott free in the end. If this was any other show, this character would be send to jail or have to go on a quest of some sort to redeem themselves for their bad actions. The show logic, just seem like a lazy and cheap get out of jail free card that they can employ without having the character do anything to make up for their questionable actions. It like a character getting a random power boost out of the blue, it makes no logical sense and is just something the writer pulled out their rear, for they could not think of anything else. It just bad logic. Which is the issue. Just simple plain old bad story telling. Which is why, if you are going to create a character. Any character. Make them a bloody character, with things they like, dislike, love, fear, hate ,ect ect.
Which as you point out, the worst thing you can do for any character who is the main character, is to make them a one note character who has only one trait. Since any famous or formerly iconic character like Luke Skywalker, Spider-man, superman, are all known for who they are as a person, not what they are. Which is what sexually is, be they straight, gay, bi, ect. That is what they are, not who they are. For you put in the effort and make a good character, many people are going to enjoy them, no matter what they are. For we have had fantasy stories about orcs, dwarves as the main characters and other fantasy races. If anything, has been proven over the years. Is that you can make people relate to almost anything, long as you employ good writing. For what some writers forget these days is, a person, a character is more than just a single trait. A good character is alot like a machine, they have many parts aka character traits and events that happen in their life, that combine together to make them who they are. Some more important than others but none the less these are the things that shape and make them feel like a true living person. For if a character is well written brand new original character, i'm sure the majority of people will be fine with it.
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Doesn't take anything away from the game, only gives people more things to connect with, don't see how his can argued.
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It's the fact that they're stripping away their current individuality (IF they reveal a current character on the roster) from what they are, and what they connect right now to turn them into a stereotype.
I connect with Meg, even though I'm a dude and into dudes.
She's into dudes (hopefully), she's an athlete, I'm an athlete, we both have single moms, etc.
I don't want her changed. And knowing companies who pander, they literally turn the pander scale from 0 to 100.
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Why is it okay for you to say you hope Meg is straight but if somebody else hopes she's gay, then that's wrong?
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Then that's fine, that's my point.
Leave her alone. Everyone can think what they want, she can be either or, but leave her alone.
Get me? Both worlds can live in their bubble relating to her as they see fit. I can live in mine, and they can live in theirs.
But leave her alone. This is my point, we've already come this far and everyone relates to a character in some way or another and changing that would just BLOW.
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Bold statement with that opener of everyone in the LGBT community. If they were really doing this tactfully instead as a pr stunt it'd probably heve been something like releasing a skin with a rainbow bracelet or earing on. Something with less spectacle, let people notice it and come to the conclusion on their own. A small easy way to make it a part of the character without it being yet another tweet a characters sexuality thing. Pr stunt it is and I don't appreciate "ooh look at how inclusive we are" pr stunts.
Seriously though, can anything be more disappointingly fake than a representation tweet? Couldn't think of any better way to implement it? Like just implementing it without the show for your applause?
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This. As a bisexual male myself, the "look at this great thing we did! love us!" ######### is cheap and old. @not_Queen @Peanits Whoever is running that twitter account and approving that stuff....think these things through. Don't use us as your PR stunts.
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It seems like Cote has been having conversations about this after discussions with fans. Maybe should've reached out to more in that community, although maybe they did and this is what they came back with. Honestly not sure what best way would be for them to do it without coming across as PR stunt. Maybe if they just added the character and if people complained release that statement. I have a feeling the poor reactions to the pride emotes may have influenced them to release a statement instead of just doing it.
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The best way to do it would be not to go out of their way to promote is in the way they did. Release cosmetics, do a pride event even, but the tasteless and cheap "look at this great thing we did!" promotion on twitter was just tacky.
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It's all so tiresome 😂
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Agreed. But he is a superhero characters that has movies, comics all sort of stuff. And first appeared in the 60's (i think) and has been evolving since. Superhero's are bassicly our version of gods so i don't think anyone was expecting a survivor having a lore or personallity as deep as Peter Parker.
To me orientation is like what the colour of your eyes is. From my experience it makes no difference on personality. I agree that if they make a new surviver and the only core attribute that they have is being a LBGT would be just as dissapointing as having a character who's only core attribute is that the colour of their eyes is green. That said i know i have picked video game characters over others on the notion that they had the same colour of eyes as me. It can be that little bit of extra connection that makes you like characters.
In short as long as they do it right i see absolutly no negatives. Being an LBGT won't stop me from playing a character who i like. And it might be that little extra connectivity that draws someone else to the character
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People already complain about the random cosmetics they put out as money grabs. They do Pride cosmetics people will say they're using it just to make a profit.
Like I said they should've reached out to more in the community before doing a statement like that. Hopefully they listen to those in the community like yourself that are not happy with the way it was handled.
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People would be fine with pride cosmetics for the same reason they were fine with the charity case pack. Not any different.
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If the money from Pride cosmetics went to related charities it would be accepted like the Charity Case cosmetics. If it went to BHVR people would complain they're using it to make a profit - like any other company that tosses a flag on a product and sells it in June.
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