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The Representation Tweet
Comments
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I guess you and I just came up with what they should have done, then. Sell cosmetics and give the proceeds to relevant charities in their area.
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They definitely should've reached out to more in the community first. Didn't take long at all to come up with that. 😂
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Yep 1962 in amazing fantasy 15. Yeah i don't anyone is going to think a brand new character, is going to have the same depth as a massively older character with ages of history. Na that i think might be a bit unreasonable but even new characters can have some depth to them or things you can sink your teeth into. Tiny little things, like they want to earn money, to support their parents. Which can give a goal and reason for why they are doing certain things in their life. Maybe that why they join say the mob, to earn money for their parents medical bills and to ensure their safely while they are recovery from some sort of illness. It might not be much as a character with dozens of years of history but it's more than enough, to make someone go, ohhh that might sound interesting. For it a bit like fishing, got to use the right bait to draw people in and make them interested in learning more about these characters. That or to use Jojo, well each part of jojo, has a different main character with their own personality. While Jonathan would be the more honorable knight or gentleman type. Joseph would be more of the trickster type, who might come off as a fool but is really smarter than he looks. Leading to there being such a variety in the cast, everyone ends up having their own favorite jojo character. For each of the jojo main characters, was at one point in time the new kid on the block but over time would become just as beloved if not more so than past main characters, due to well basic good writing, learning a few basic things about the character to hook you on them and than slowly over time reveal more about them. For the new cast just like the old, had to learn the ropes and go through their own adventures, struggles and challenges.
Which yeah i think you bring up a fair point, since this is a video game and all that. Some people don't really care about the lore or backstory of a character, they will just pick one that looks cool or they simply like the look of. Which is fine. Since well there is always the logic of, if you are going to look at something all day or for hours at a time, might as well be something you enjoy looking at or something you personal like. Which is fair.
Yeah i agree, long as they do it right. It will simply be a win win for the majority. People who want more of x, will get that but at the same time, people who want a good character to get invested in and learn more about, will get a brand new interesting character to learn about and sink their teeth into. With these who are interested in a good character who also happen to be x, they will be pleased as well. Making it a win win.
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Great ideas tbh
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Im just gonna continue doing the original concept of “Your David may be gay but mine isn’t” so idc what they do
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No, selling special cosmetics based in group identity is a slippery slope.
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Why don't you complain about the USA flag cosmetics, Japanese-themed cosmetics, and other such cosmetics?
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You know how it works these days,.... if someone post, "I like oranges" people will say its because they are racist against apples.
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I know loads of Gamers who say, They support LGBT+, but will complain constantly about any little slightly not straight character.
If its something that enriches the Lore for people in this game, I'm all for it. lets ######### go.
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That's not how it works, but OK.
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ah, you are right, I forgot "you left out bananas you are not being inclusive"
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Still not how it works, at all. But you're free to believe what you want.
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ITT: homosexuality is political but heterosexuality isn't. Het lore already in-game is fine, LGBT lore is pandering. Totally not a homophobe though, you guys.
Everyone talking about poorly included gay characters who are one-dimensional or whatever; gay people feel the same. Most of us have taste just like you. We mock JK Rowling all the time. That said, if you're gonna complain about a gay-centric character but see no problem with Feng "every single thing about me is related to video games" Min, your problem may not be with one-dimensional characters. Like het content, DbD already has plenty of that.
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Post above this literally shows it, calling anyone who disagrees a homophobe, thats EXACTLY how the internet works and is proven everytime a thread like this is made.
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That's not what is written in that post. What's written is that some people are fine with heterosexual lore already present in the game, but take issue with LGBT lore, while also decrying the latter as "political" and saying the former is fine. If you're not one of those people, that's not directed at you.
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Thank you. I see gay content objected to on several grounds, but straight content that falls within the exact objection is always ignored. What am I to think is the real reason for the objection, then?
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I hear you. Even if some people who're objecting don't mean it that way, that's what it comes across as. To those of you who think they're being accused of being bigots, here's an example.
- His ex has moved on and she doesn't want to see his face.
- His ex has moved on and he doesn't want to see his face.
The first one implies a heterosexual relationship and the second implies a homosexual relationship. Other than that, those statements are functionally identical. If you object to 2 but not 1, what are we supposed to conclude, except that your issue is with homosexual relationships?
This has been going on since forever. Every time someone brings up adding LGBT content into a game that already has explicit and overt heterosexuality, these same arguments are brought to the table.
If you don't want characters with defined sexual orientations, that's fine. However, if you're OK with having one sexual orientation in your game and not the others, are people supposed to believe your issue is with sexual orientations overall, or just some sexual orientations?
EDIT: To be clear, I'm not calling anyone a bigot, homophobe, or whatever. I'm genuinely asking you to do some introspection, put yourself in our shoes (and by "our" I don't mean LGBT, I mean everyone whom you think is calling you a bigot), and try to understand why your comments come across in a certain way.
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Thanks for letting me know lol
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You'd be surprised.
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No reasonableperson has a problem if the company wants to add language like that. You and others seem to be missing the main point that people have a problem with. By all means add a gay character. Don't get on Twitter to pat yourself on the back for doing it.
And you might not be calling anyone a homophobe but when other people talk about insulting JK Rowling, it comes across as openly hostile.
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I only care about blendette. She should only be allowed to wear neon clothes.
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The tweet was not to pat themselves on the back and I don't know why you're reading it that way. The tweet served a two-fold purpose:
- Announces what they're going to be adding (perfectly reasonable, they do it all the time).
- Serves as a sort of apology to the LGBT community.
See, initially, they said they wouldn't confirm any character's sexual orientation. However, since the Nurse, characters have had explicit relationships written about in their lore. The LGBT community got shafted in that regard - all the relationships are heterosexual and the characters are presumably heterosexual as well. To amend this, they want to "out" all the survivors and killers (I'm guessing via the rift), instead of just the heterosexual ones.
Now, which part do you take issue with?
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Haven't seen any criticism lead with them backpatting on Twitter. It's always phrased in terms of "adding things into the game that don't need to be there", "pandering", "keep characters neutral", etc. If you're saying a gay character is fine, I think you're the only one. And you're not who I'm talking to when I speak harshly.
That said, I've experienced open hostility over my gender & sexuality more or less constantly over my life, ever since I was a little trans kid. This was less "abstract idea of gays mocking JK Rowling" and more "I thought I deserved to die for over a decade, starting when I was about 6 years old", so that's what hostility around queer issues means to you vs what it means to me.
I am usually quite a softly-spoken person, but this is not a subject I speak softly on. Trying to got me nowhere.
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Apologize for what? The fact that either they need to apologise for not having an openly gay character? For giving someone a straight relationship without adding a gay one to balance it? Clearly they felt the need to publicize their wokeness even though the game was doing fine as is and would continue to be fine by simply adding a gay character without shouting it from the mountain top.
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Apologize for the fact that they only added heterosexual relationships, even though they originally said they weren't going to add any to begin with, and completely neglected the LGBT community whom they claim to support.
Maybe you'll get it if I phrase it differently. Let's say I was a researcher working in psychology and I verbally confirmed my support for men on the subject of mental health. However, when actually discussing mental health, I exclusively mention women and make no explicit (or even implicit) reference to men. There's nothing in any of my published articles about men, none of the studies I've done explicitly or implicitly involved men (but they did explicitly involve women), I won't even reference men except in non-committal statements. Would you feel I was supportive of men's health?
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The Twitter post and pandering go hand in hand. Many see this as a move to appease the SJW crowd on social media
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BHVR is not your friend. They are here to make money. They can do whatever they want.
On the lighter side of things, I see comments about connecting with characters. I play pretty much killer these days. I do not connect with any of killers. If i did, i should probably be locked up. I don't even know how i would even begin to connect with demogorgon.
When I did play survivor, I played female characters only, until Ash came out. Ash is the #########. In most games, if the option is available, I will pick female characters. Always have, always will. I'm not a female, I just play female characters in video games.
I enjoyed SW JEDI: the fallen order...my only big issue was why did the main character have to be what appears to be white male red head 😐
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So who is our friend, exactly? The people who don't want us anywhere near them because our very inclusion is seen as "pandering/political/PR" and to be avoided? Please, do point out where our friends are, because as far as I can tell, BHVR is doing more for the LGBT community than most of the people here, and that's just sad.
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Ah, here we go, 'the SJWs'. That's what I was looking for. ... Corporations don't do anything out of the goodness of their hearts or pure Artistic Integrity, man. They eat and breathe money. Dollars. Wealth. I'm sorry your introduction to this concept is tinged with gamergate terror of a fictional flock of fanatical feminist queers, but of course it's a mix of PR and marketing; so is everything companies do.
"This is pandering!" is the conclusion of someone who can only pierce the veil and see beneath the act when they're hopping mad about gays. It's all marketing, dude. This is the pink dollar. All the Japanese outfits? Laser-targeted at the weaboo dollar. This game? It wants dollars, mine and yours. Welcome to capitalism. Enjoy your stay.
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That decision is yours to make. I can't tell you or any one else how to navigate through life.
If people want to believe BHVR and other companies are you friends, then that's thier choice.
As for me, BHVR is a company at the end of the day. The are not what i personally consider as friends.
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For the record, I see people like @SenzuDuck as our friends, the ones who say "I don't care that you're LGBT, but" and instead of following that "but" with "I'd rather not have people like you in this game", like many commenters here are, they follow it up with "if having people like you in this game makes you happy, then I'm happy".
People like SenzuDuck are actual friends of the LGBT community, as opposed to those who pay lip service to the LGBT community and then claim any real inclusion of the LGBT community is "pandering" and should be avoided.
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Let me rephrase then, who is actually showing us support? Because pretty much all I see is people paying lip service to the LGBT community. BHVR is going to do something, however minimal it may be. Sure, it's financially motivated, but that's what companies do. I don't expect them to give a ######### if it's no longer profitable, though sometimes they surprise me.
So which one of these fine gentlemen saying they don't want confirmation of LGBT characters already in the game because "pandering", "PR stunt", "restricts head canons", "SJWs", "woke", "pride month", "won't be done properly", "patting themselves on the back", "inclusiveness is divisive", "the homophobes will be angry", etc. is showing support? Please, point them out.
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You say you aren't trying to tell anyone how to navigate through life, but start one of your sentences with "BHVR is not your friend...." as some kind of warning , or as if that alone means bhvr doesn't care about the gay community.
Nobody, absolutely nobody, is even claiming this move makes Bhvr some type of LGBTQI Activist. The point is that they are addressing something that are changing, I am guessing because they are exploring more of each character's lore. Plus as a private company letting everyone know their stance on issues which may have nothing to do with some people.
I didn't think that BHVR was my "friend" before or after the announcement, but I also don't think they are my enemy. As a gay male, I appreciate that they are making a bold move, that not many video game companies do.
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I'm not talking about players. I'm talking about BHVR, and I was talking in regards to friends. Now the meaning has been rephrased from my original words.
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I should have used IMO...and your = entire player population.
I should have also quoted OP as it was a response to their post.
If you were offended by what I said, just report me and get me banned. I'm on my 3rd strike.
Post edited by The_Bootie_Gorgon on0 -
I 100% support the community if some people are being babies and don’t like it.Well then you people should refrain from existing on here and commenting on any of these threads.Or better yet grow a pair and except that this is happening or go find another game to play.You don’t need to ruin things for others how would you feel if someone said something about your mother’s weight.Your mother is so fat it takes a very long time for her food to go through her three stomachs😂👋.
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Beyond the inconvent detail that LGBT people actually exist and so logically would end up being present within the 50+ characters in the game already, I think people are being exceptionally unimaginative with storytelling potential sexuality (in all forms) brings. Finding out a character had someone they loved makes them more sympathetic and tragic. Finding out they had someone who loved them that they betrayed takes things the opposite way.
Completely off the top of my head:
Evans lore seems to hinge on torn loyalty between his miner friends and his father- a catalyst for turning against the miners could be a confession of love met with rejection. Rather than Evan having 'bad blood' or whatever, his shame and conflict over the rejection could lead to him accepting his father's ideology and becoming cruel as a defense mechanism.
This isn't that good I'll admit, but it's SOMETHING and an example of how sexuality can be an interesting part of a character's backstory- it being a minor background detail is fine too, but kinda dull.
Sexuality CAN be more than harmless lipservice and frankly is a ridiculously underutilised element of human experience in gaming precisely because of the unaddressed sqeamishness of straight dudes when it comes to sexualities that they can't relate to.
Plus we're throwing around 'LGBT' a lot: I can say with 100% certainty we will never see a trans character in this game. If BHVR take the plunge they'll still play it as safe as possible for the exact reasons outlined in this thread: the gaming community just doesn't have enough critical thinking to deal with this topic as things stand.
My money is on one female survivor confirmed as bisexual, without this playing into her lore in a significant way beyond an aside about finding two individuals equally attractive- probably yui or karina. If we see a gay male character I will be shocked, if we have a trans character DBD may actually be the first game with a playable trans character? (I don't follow MOBAs and stuff so it might already have happened).
TLDR: Don't worry OP I'm personally confident your throat is safe.
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I'm interested to see what avoiding "politics" in character creation would look like. If we consider race and the original characters, would 4 white survivors have been a political decision? Would 4 black ones? Or is two white, one black, one asian an apolitical ratio?
Is nurse having a husband apolitical but a wife political? Is Nea having an extremely lesbian wardrobe political, or does her lore have to match the flannel for that to be the case?
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Yeah, because the "If you don't like it, don't buy it" worked out fine for Battlefield 5.
You do know, "don't like it, don't buy it" doesn't pay bills right?
It's why companies refrain from announcing those statements. And having a "don't like it don't buy it" or "if you don't like it leave" is a very, VERY fascist state of mind.
"You don’t need to ruin things for others"
Was perfect enough.
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You... You, I like very much. This is a surpassingly excellent post. My only disagreement is that I can totally see a milquetoast white and masc gay guy, a la Soldier 69 in Overwatch. That ground has been fairly well-trod. As far as #hashtag #representation (#####) goes, I would shrug off my coat of grimy cynicism for a tough trans woman character, but I know I will not be getting anything of the sort.
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Thank you! I ended up thanking orion for fighting the good fight in another thread, but I was really impressed by your contributions here too! I feel second hand frustration for anyone who puts energy into a good faith response only the be met with the same brain dead replies over and over- well done for keeping at it!
I could possibly see a guy gay on reflection-- definitely heavily coded and signposted so that none of the straight dudes accidently identify with him for even a second though :p
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It's not far off.
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@Jb94 @SewerSwans full-on masc4masc I'm gonna guess
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First game with a playable Trans character is The Last of Us 2.
You play as a trans person the second half of the game. I'm not giving spoilers.
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Yeah, and they ruined the story literally to shoehorn it in like they did - and if you know what I know (which it sounds like you do), you know thats exactly what they did. Shoehorn it in without doing it creatively.
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I know man, I'm so greedy. The time a guy followed me down the street screaming "GET BACK HERE YOU LITTLE QUEER" was enough recognition for anyone. When the Nurse has a husband, Frank & Julie and Dwight and David are all getting in on het romance and crushes, it falls to us mundane human maggots, Just Like Everyone Else, to shrivel away out of sight. Our presence is so filthy it's unprofessional to even mention us. Perhaps the next killer's Mori can be him putting on a dress and forcing homosexuality down the survivor's throat, though, because that idea seems like a potent source of horror for a lot of people. I think it might scare you straight.
Post edited by Rizzo on5 -
ok
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Cool. That's a massive spoiler I wasn't aware of. Thanks.
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Yes, I've provided examples of many games which were FORCED in.
It's not good, and people don't take it so well.
I'm gay and I don't like it.
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In the case of battlefield 5, they try to sell it as a historical game. While they were creating fiction or rather lies and trying to sell it as reality. Which people pointed that out and ea just said don't like it, don't buy it. Leading to their sales tankly massively next to other big titles like call of duty. That and when the game came out, it turn out a few of these stories they made up. Were inspired by real events, so they basically replaced real life people with fictional characters. Which was a second slap in the face, to anyone who values history. Replacing real life people, in events they took part in with fictional characters. It's like they just gave two big fat middle fingers to the people who fought in this world war and risked their lives.
Like ea could of avoided this whole mess by doing one of two things. Saying their game is base off of war world 2 or influence by it. Since Valkyria Chronicles setting is heavily influenced by world war 2, yet is it's own original thing, allowing it to have more creative freedom. Since it's not trying to pass of it's self off as a historical game. It know it's fiction and is well aware of it, so it treats it's self like a fictional story. Not trying to pass it's self off as reality, when it's clearly fiction. Like ea screwed up so royally on so many levels with battlefield 5, it's impressive how badly they shot themselves in the foot over and over again.
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