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Slugging For The 4K - An Exaggerated Problem?
Comments
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Because there's arses on the survivor side too.
We recommend learning to use snug, he heavily punishes those types of survivors.
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yeah for sure I hate it too, I always make sure to call out my random teammates when they teabag in exit gates (unless I personally saw the killer do something super BM beforehand). it's almost always a survivor who did nothing all game, too, so it's really easy to call them out on it. hate survivors that do that. i personally only ever stay in gate when the killer's nearby if i think it'll give my teammates time to reset
i was just preemptively trying to head off the comparison between bleedout slugging and teabagging at an exit because although they're both BM and rude they're very different as far as core mechanics go
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So you're not actually 'waiting it out' at all.
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It would be awesome to have a doggo on my Hag but I don't think it's in the cards.
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Well I'm not looking for them, so in a way I am waiting it out. Waiting for them to come out of hiding while I patrol gens. At some point people will realise hiding doesn't accomplish anything. Doesn't get them the hatch, doesn't get them the escape.
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My response to this…vanished for some reason, but short version:
- Survivor BM contributes to killers having pressure to 4k.
- Some of this comes from the developers' attitude towards toxicity, with Mandy going on record in the past as saying that anything short of slurs is completely fine and another developer post I cannot locate talking about how (after an animation rework AFAIR) they wanted teabagging to remain as satisfying for survivors.
- BM slugging is more analogous to BM hiding. It's rare, there are outlier cases who do it all the time and it should probably be fixed, but that's a complicated proposition.
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Yet sometimes hiding does get us that door or hatch. So where's that leave us?
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An essential component in a vicious cycle.
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The same place that 3 Genning before the kick limit had us. Then the kick limit was introduced to prevent that scenario of boring the opponents into submission over a long period of time. This is why many people's answer to the hide and seek dilemma would be for crows to become present when survivors go a significant period of time without making any progress on gens.
If survivors end up escaping after a 30+ minute stalemate, its most likely because the killer would rather leave the match than wait out the server shutdown and instead just let them go. Excessive 3 genning and excessive hiding are two sides of the same coin, but one will seemingly never be addressed.
Edit: narrowing down specifically to the slug for 4k scenario, both sides would react to the scenario in more healthy ways if the hatch was earned, instead of RNG. You can blame sore winners as much as sore losers for that.
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It only does when the killer kills the 3rd. But if the 3rd is alive then hiding doesn't do anything. So when both hide it accomplishes nothing. I been playing it that way for about a week, want to know how many have escaped via hatch by hiding? 0. I have had many complaints about it but 🤷♂️ they are the ones hiding.
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Confirmation: You are talking about 2 survivors hiding forever or the slugging for the 4k? We may have accidently blended your conversation with someone else.
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We gonna hold off on this one cause we may have accidently responded under the wrong thing
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Specifically talking about hiding forever, like I said if 3rd is alive, hatch doesn't spawn. Make what you will of that lol
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Yeah, there's an auto filter that sometimes auto-removes posts. Not sure what the criteria is but there you have it
I think it's what's known as a positive-feedback loop. Killers sweat and BM, which leads to negative survivor attitudes, which leads to survivors sweating and BMing, which leads to negative killer attitudes, which leads to killers sweating and BM'ing, etc. Which side started it? Whose fault is it? It doesn't matter, because both sides are doing it now, and the best thing you can do is try to break the cycle (or just not play if it gets too much for you).
Definitely agree with you on the third point.
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Since that helps little: If 2 are alive and hiding forever then yes it wont help, if 2 are alive and 1 has been slugged then no hiding helps.
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Exactly, so answer is don't slug right?
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Anytime someone slugs for the 4k to try and maximize their results for whatever reason, it's an ego thing?
The more you know.
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But we're talking about rationales here on human behavior. You can wait the survivors out if you want, though if you're patrolling gens and they are just on the other side of the map they're probably also doing something else on their phone or alt tabbing while they wait.
If you're fine waiting the hour for the 4k sure, but at some point I'd think time investment would outweigh that.
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They have to do something to avoid crows, not much but if they tab out and don't move at all they will get crows. I could technically not move... I don't even need to patrol gens with tinkerer because when it gets to 70% I will know where they are. Just have it running in the background while I have some food or something while they are on the other side of the map avoiding crows.
I pose the same statement to you, if survivors are fine waiting out the hour for a hatch that may never appear then you would think at some point time investment would outweigh that, especially as they don't get the win at the end. Works both ways.
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I pose the same statement to you, if survivors are fine waiting out the hour for a hatch that may never appear then you would think at some point time investment would outweigh that, especially as they don't get the win at the end. Works both ways.That was my point about the chicken and egg scenario. You had said:
With this sort of attitude is there really any wonder why people slug and don't care if it's wasting survivors time?If killers slug because survivors are going to hide, then survivors hide because killers are going to slug. Both sides are sacrificing a lot of time for a minute improvement and/or to annoy the other side.
It happens on both sides. I don't understand why as I will either get on a gen as survivor or patrol the map as killer, but it happens for both.
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Killers don't slug because survivors hide. They slug because they know the hatch will spawn the moment 3rd survivor dies regardless if survivors hide or not. So to maximise chance of finding hatch before survivor does, the killer will slug to slow them down. Survivors hide because they know they can't do the gens with only 2 people left (suicide to try). So they hide and hope the other survivor dies first so the remaining survivor has a chance to get the hatch. So we know which came first, the hatch. That's the reason for both sides doing what they do. Why do survivors remain hidden when they know the killer won't look for them after about 15min? That's the issue, that's the time wasting without reason.
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comparing slugging for 4k and tbagging at the gate is comparing apples to oranges. One is literally securing 100% of your objective, other is just plain attempt of "dominance asserting" by wanting your opponent to come and look at their defeat. Slugging for 4k is only lowkey comparable to saving a survivor in endgame for 4-men escape
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The rhetoric of ‘I need to slug because survivors hide and waste my time’ has always annoyed me as it’s a clear case of cause and correlation. Survivors hide because they know the killer is going to slug for the 4K. The proof of this is that in matches where killers don’t do this most survivors continue to play normally.
If the killer hooks the third survivor 90% of the time the last survivor will try and unhook in matches I play. Less often, but still very often, people will still try and pick you up even though it’s clear the killer is proxy camping and trying for the 4K. Survivors want to engage in normal gameplay. If you’re seeing survivors hiding in the majority of your matches as a killer then you’re likely slugging for the 4K a lot. It annoys me survivors are blamed on this scenario when killers are causing their own issues, most of the time.
The hatch has always been in the game and slugging for the 4k wasn’t a problem until the last couple of years. If the hatch was removed then the doors would be powered and survivors could still try to escape that way. So killers would still slug… and likely also expect wake up and sole survivor to be nerfed .
The game has been going on for so long now that it’s going to need to change and evolve - just as it did for killers when they added blood lust etc. it’s just how it goes. If killers don’t want slugging for the 4K to cause a change in the game, as I believe it will shortly, then they need to stop doing it so consistently and just re-engage in normal gameplay.
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Not every time. If they know where the last survivor is and the killer is going for adept or some tome challenge that requires a 4k, it can be more time efficient to slug for the 30 seconds to get the additional down, instead of risking having to play the extra game. I don't personally do that but that specific scenario is one I can justify as not being about ego
However, caring enough about the differences between a 3k and a 4k when a challenge is not involved is indeed an ego thing.
I invoked the comparison because they're both decisions that are made from a desire to flaunt one's own ego ("I'm so good that only a 4k will do and these peon survivors will have to waste their own time for my sake or hand it to me on a silver platter" in the former, "This loser baby killer didn't stand a chance against my greatness" in the latter)
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People really need to check their own sense of entitlement.
Personally, I realize that the killer may try to 4K/wholly complete their objective using anything the game allows them to do. Even if they slug for the 4k, they are still just playing the game within the defined ruleset and mechanics.
I also realize that the last survivor(s) may try to get hatch by any means necessary as it may be their only viable option to escape. If they hide during a slug or do a 'drive by' on another remaining survivor, they are also just playing the game within the defined ruleset and mechanics.
I know that these actions can occur any time I queue up and don't expect otherwise.
I certainly understand that actions like these may not be fun for the people on the receiving end, but trying to maximize your own results does not equate to ego issues.
I didn't get a psychology degree from DBD University, though, so my expectations that people try to kill/survive to the best of their own abilities within the game's rulesets may be out of touch.
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Makes no sense why survivors would hide to avoid being slugged. Does make sense why they would hide for hatch. Slugging for 4k has always been a thing it's only got worse recently due to mori update, but the fact is slugging for 4k has always been around.
In my matches the hatch is removed, survivors hide and the hatch doesn't spawn, gates are not powered and they don't escape. I don't slug them, I let them wait until server ends. So I'm thinking if survivors want to keep the hatch as a mechanic then stop hiding for it.
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I think many people misunderstood the original comment. It was about a situation when tehre are more than 1 person slugged and 1 person healthy/injured. You hook one of them and then the other one is picked up and both hide leaving the third one to die. The question is, why in this situation not slug? It wastes less time for everyone and killer is pretty much doing a favour here.
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